WITCH (WE INTEND TO CAUSE HAVOC) - IN CONVERSATION
foreword & interview with Emmanuel “Jagari” Chanda by Beau Croxton
WITCH by Izzie Austin — Emmanuel “Jagari” Chanda (right) & Patrick Mwondela (left)
WITCH is a fascinating African band from Zambia that came to fruition in the 1970s– their band name is an acronym for “We Intend To Cause Havoc”. Their cultural backstory is nearly as enthralling as the story of Sixto Rodriguez (as detailed in “Searching For Sugarman"), the story of Buena Vista Social Club, or the story of William Onyeabor (as detailed by the documentary “Fantastic Man”).
There is a great documentary on the band called “We Intend To Cause Havoc” that details the story in the best way– ( you can watch for free here).
For those who are unfamiliar, here is some background and context ahead of my conversation with their lead singer Emmanuel “Jagari” Chanda.
WE INTEND TO CAUSE HAVOC
WITCH were pioneers of “Zamrock”— a Zambian brand of rock music. It is defined by a fusion of traditional African music with psychedelic rock, garage rock, blues and funk. Zamrock was heavily influenced by the many classic rock and roll groups of the 1960s and 70s, such as The Rolling Stones, Black Sabbath, Cream and Deep Purple.
The band name was derived from the wah-wah pedal aka the “footswitch” that was used to create their psychedelic "Zamrock". By taking the “s” out of the “switch” it resulted in “Witch”. Later, their graphic artist friend from Kitwe came up with the acronym “We Intend To Cause Havoc” for the band name.
The group was most active in Zambia's golden post-independence days– a more prosperous time after Zambia achieved independence from the United Kingdom. Fronted by charismatic singer Emannuel "Jagari" Chanda, the band had a unique and trademark style. When the group played live, they often wore what Chanda calls the “WITCH hat’ a very iconic, oversized, floppy, colorfully-patterned sun hat. They frequently wore bell bottoms, an afro hairstyle (as popularized by Hendrix, according to Chanda) and high heeled shoes.
WITCH Introduction artwork— and original lineup with Emmanuel “Jagari” Chanda (1973)
During this period, folks in Zambia were very vocal about Jaragi’s absolutely electric stage presence, often calling him the “Mick Jagger of Zambia”. He was known for his daring stage-diving from balconies and wild dancing— the guy was an absolute rockstar and showman.
In reference to their shows in Zambia, Malawi, Zimbabwe, and Botswana, Jagari told The Guardian – “We were worshipped by our audiences”. According to The Guardian–The intensity of the band’s popularity was so extreme that the police were called to calm riots outside overcrowded shows. On one occasion, the fans even ripped the roof off of a hall where the band played, as other frenzied fans tried to get through the windows.
Unfortunately, in the late-1970s with the economy starting to collapse and the rise of government authoritarianism, WITCH (and most Zamrock bands) were reduced to playing daytime shows to avoid the government-imposed curfews, which resulted in the Zamrock movement fading away. This prompted Jagari to leave the group to explore other career options in gemstone mining and teaching. The band continued on, with varying lineups and eventually diverted into disco and other genres.
WITCH were stars in their home country, but unfortunately they didn't get the true recognition they deserved elsewhere in the world. Luckily, the group started to appear on many compilation albums, and in 2012, Now Again Records reissued their entire catalog, which led many new fans to discover the magic of the band.
Lead singer Emmanuel “Jagari” Chanda was invited to perform in the states in 2012, and he began a collaboration with Jacco Gardner in 2016. The aforementioned documentary captures this moment in time, and the formation of the modern WITCH lineup. The modern resurrection of the group features Jagari (vocals), another surviving WITCH member Patrick Mwondela (on keys) and they are backed by European musicians Jacco Gardner, Nico Mauskoviç, Stefan Lilov, and JJ Whitefield.
I was awestruck seeing the band’s resurrection at Desert Daze festival myself in 2022. It was truly incredible– as I was in the front row as a first-hand witness. It was one of my favorite sets of the entire weekend, especially due to the sheer joy that Jagari and the group exuded. Now performing well past the age of 70— Jagari’s showmanship is still totally electric. His cheer was a beam of joy that was clearly felt by every single audience member.
The band teamed up with Desert Daze (festival) to release their fantastic comeback record Zango on a new Desert Daze label in 2023, which received rave reviews and featured notable guest-artists like Sampha The Great, and incredible tracks like “Waile”. (below)
In 2025, WITCH continued their resurgence in a very strong and creative way with their new follow-up record SOGOLO, which is a blast - you can check out Blake Peck’s Occult review here.
I had the absolute pleasure of chatting with the legend himself, “Jagari” Chanda on the release day of SOGOLO. (He was a bit late, because he was getting a haircut, but it's release day so…gotta stay fresh for the big day!)
Check out our chat below.
INTERVIEW
BEAU: Hi ! How are you doing? Good to see you, Jagari!
JAGARI: Good to see you! I was cutting my hair.
BEAU: Yeah– you know, you got to have a fresh haircut for release day!
JAGARI: It's hot here, so at least now the air can pass.
(everyone laughs)
BEAU: Well, it's so great to talk to you. Congratulations. Today's the day– great to speak to you on the release day of SOGOLO. Congratulations on the record– It's really great. We loved it, it's a riot of fun.
JAGARI: I'm humbled. If you love it, it's good for me….and for the rest of the group. It's good for us!
BEAU: What are you and the bandmates doing to celebrate the day? How are you feeling about it?
JAGARI: Unfortunately, we are in different places, I don't know where the other guys are. I'm checking on the social media page where they're saying congratulations, and things like that.
BEAU: Well, I'm glad I got to say it myself to you. It's so great that WITCH has a new lineup, making new records. Zango is really incredible, and now SOGOLO is too. I'd love to hear a little bit about the process of recording the album.
JAGARI: In a normal situation or normal circumstances, the band would practice together for some time and then they determine when they can get to the studio and make a record.
That wasn't the case for the past record. You know, we live on different continents. There's someone from America, two guys from Europe, and another guy in the UK… and the girls from Africa. So we only spared 10 days of our busy schedule of a tour of Europe and the UK in July. And we borrowed (if you like) 10 days of that tour? I was asked to bring some samples from Zambia, the demos of the composition, and Patrick had some from the UK. And when we met there, we didn't have a lot of time to practice those things. So, we let people listen to what was available ....There were a bit of adjustments here and there.
And then finally we sort of settled for what we could do within that time. So the good thing is that the musicians were ready– they are experienced musicians. They are determined and creative, so it made the work somehow easier.
But in the beginning, I was a bit nervous - I wasn't too comfortable ( if you like) with the way we handled the recording. It's somehow surprising that what has come out is acceptable. And we had a good grading from the critics and analysts, which is a plus for us. Some grateful for them. Yeah, but we didn't have enough time for perfection, even though there's no real perfection. It's amazing that it turned out to be what it has come out to be.
WITCH by Izzie Austin— newest lineup, Jagari Chanda second to left.
BEAU: There's a great rawness on the record that translates from the older material and a little bit from the last one too, so, the spirit is absolutely there. I can understand what you were saying like you were kind of nervous…you know, when there's a lot of things that are out of your control and a lot of new things at hand etc…
JAGARI: It’s different from the way we used to record. We used to rehearse to a point that we were happy to get to the studio, especially from the third, fourth, fifth albums.
The first albums, Introduction and In The Past, we were ready musically. We were ready as a band. When we got there except it was analog and it was just you set the equipment like it's a gig or something. That's how we did the first two albums. From the third one, we went to an upgraded studio (DB studios) and we had an opportunity to do something slightly different.
But for the Lukombo Vibes and Including Janet – the fourth and fifth albums, we were ready for the recording. even though… on Lukombo Vibes , we only had nine hours, because the studio was going on break. They just considered us, because we had come from another country. We didn’t know that they were going on break– So they said, okay, “we will accommodate you, but only for nine hours.”
But because we were ready, we did it. Lukombo Vibes was done in nine hours. Yeah, now for modern day recording, I think you have to debate certain things….. “Is that the tone we want? Do we use the synthesizer here?” We use it as that kind of thing. That's the time we didn't have actually. When we went back to our respective areas, we had to phone Jacco, who was mixing the stuff and say, “make some changes here and there” and things like that. But in the end, that's what came out. Thank god, yeah.
BEAU: Like I was saying, the spirit of the old material is really there….not just on SOGOLO, but on Zango as well. What was the process like getting the production to kind of have the “WITCH sound”, and the spirit?
We had a similar situation in Zambia. The label wanted us to go back to the same studio we had recorded “Lazy Bones” in. I suppose they didn't want us to be “too modern”, in terms of sound or too digitalized– that kind of thing. I think they wanted us to have that feel of Zamrock. So when we went there again, we had about eight songs or so we couldn't finish the other two–like “Avalanche of Love” for Zango. We were featuring Sampha The Great, after the band had gone back and it was the time of COVID. Yeah, so there were these cancellations of tickets, postponement of this and that. So the band had to go back to Europe, most of the people before the recording finished. So Sampha and I went to another studio to do “Avalanche of Love.”
But the instrumentation was done, (most of it) was done before the band went to different places. So somehow, you don't have enough time to do what you expect to do. But such is life! There's no real perfection. If we, the owners of the music, are not perfect– what do you expect? (laughs) It was like a test for us. Apparently satisfactory results have come out.
“Avalanche Of Love” video (… with the infamous “WITCH hat”)
BEAU: Absolutely– We love the record! So speaking of which, did you have different goals with the music that you were making for this record? You definitely expanded more from the last record.
Well, when we finished Zango and we met for a tour, Jacco said something about what he had expected me to do. As one of the composers, he said, “is it possible you could stick to some traditional stories, cultural stuff? Would you want to do some Zambian?” You know, he was pointing me towards the storytelling and traditional music styles and things like that. So of the six demos that I brought, six to seven demos were along the lines of African, the traditional Zambian stories, which included music. In the song “Dancer on a Trip”, I'm talking about a village situation. The musician is going on a trip.
In European history, you had the troubadours who went to different palaces, countries and things– we also have such people in the history of Zambia. This is where the story comes from. The mother is trying to encourage the son (who is a musician) and say “every village you go to— watch out. When people clap for you, appreciate that, but don't overstay your acceptance. When people start to clap, you must stop– so that you don't do a wrong thing which will take away from that appreciation.” So this is what the story is about. He's also telling them, “I'm just like you guys, don't overpress me for this or for that. ( starts singing “Mwilang'ombela ee Mbela ee, Mbela ee mbela ee! Mwilang'ombela ee! )--- it's my mother who has taught me this. This is the story.
If you follow Anna's song, “Nibani”, it's also about the Africans village setup – where some child has gone missing. And people are asking, “have you seen my child? I just sent my child to go and fetch this – but I can't find my child.”
Then we also have “Tiponde Manzi”. It's a story about the village community. It's a story told when you go to bed, by grandparents…parents…especially under the moonlight. They told stories of the animal kingdom, where the animals gather together to say “The land is so dry. Let's look for water.” And you know, there are some animals that look very clever. Sometimes they think they can do things on their own and then they try to look for water by stamping the ground, but they don't find the water. Then the tortoise comes to say, “Can I try also?” And they say “No, you can't do anything. You don't have the strength. You don't have the speed.”— and things like that. Unfortunately to them, that's the one who found the water. The rabbit, the hare, is just good at talking, but is not very useful in a venture like that. So they say, “No, you just thought you would be the one to find water, but you didn't find water. The tortoise found the water.”
So the moral of this story is — don't underestimate anybody before you give them a test, or before you see what they're able to do.
BEAU: So… don't celebrate too hard, and don't underrate people, right?
JAGARI:: Yeah, yeah, yeah! You know?!
(everyone laughs)
JAGARI: That's the kind of thing that we draw inspiration from. I personally drew inspirations from traditional stories. And of course, sometimes you can imagine certain things like “Queenless king”. It's not common that a king can have no wife. The idea of looking for wives, by other people rather than the husband himself– poses some kind of desire.
It's supposed to be a man looking for his own– because in our culture most marriages are arranged. The family will approach another family and then they will say, “We think that you should marry in that family because they are hardworking. Don't marry in this other family because most of them are lazy.” Then we have the health background of people going mad, people being lazy, things like that. Within the village, families studied and graded one another.
Especially if those people had children in the urban area, and they decided to go and get married in their village– they depended on their parents to choose wives for them. I'm dreaming that I'm a king, but I don't have a wife to call a queen. I'm enticed by the beauty of this lady thinking, oh, “she's very pretty looking” things like that. Not knowing that she's a very shrewd and cunning lady. Later, I find out that she's not an angel per se. Getting closer to her, “I thought this is an angel!” but getting closer to her again, I find that she's a cheating rebel—this is the inspiration for “Queenless King.”
BEAU: I really love “Queenless King”. That song and “Dancers…”… those are two of my favorites. The instrumental is also just wild.
JAGARI: Thank you! I also like “By the Time You Realize”. That song is not only for the village, it is global. We take our partners for granted. The partner keeps complaining, “stop doing what you're doing. It hurts me. You think “Oh….She loves me. She loves me. She will still stick around.” But there comes a time when they are just fed up with you, and they walk away and leave you alone. By the time you realize— it's too late.
BEAU: It's a good universal theme– I agree. You can't get stuck in your ways so much because everybody around you will get affected. So– Back in the 70’s, people said you were the “Mick Jagger of Zambia.” I would love to hear more about that.
JAGARI: It was probably because of some songs that we played. We were influenced by these bands. I was listening a lot to the Beatles, to Cliff Richard, the Hollies, the Troggs and many groups just for listening. But when it came to what we wanted to play, we would pick the Rolling Stones. ….Things like “Sympathy for the Devil”, things like “Satisfaction”, “Jumping Jack Flash” and such.
And according to the fans, they think I did well– covering those songs. So they gave me that name…..I was worried. I was a bit worried. Well– he is a great man. He's a great musician. He's a great person. But I didn't want to live in somebody's shadow.
BEAU: Yeah– You have to have your own personality. I think they were saying it's a quality thing. They're saying you're “that cool.”
JAGARI: Yes, yes… But then what could I do? I couldn't go around the country trying to convince fans that, “No, I'm not Jagger!” All I did was I put a “Y” to Jagger. I became Jaggery. And then I went to the dictionary and it gave me “dark brown sugar.” That is crude. You just take sugar, put it on a hot pan and the brown sugar turns into something sweet. So I said, “okay, this is okay. At least it's different.” It's Jaggery. And at the same time, in Africa, there was a leader in Nigeria who was called Shaul Shagari. So I said, “Oh, wow, I can Africanize this name instead.” And I just changed the spelling to J-A-G-A-R-I. Much, much later, that's when I knew that that name exists in India as well. There is Jagari in India. It's got a different meaning altogether.
BEAU: So how does it feel to be back? Like in 2012, you were asked to perform... Now there's just this large interest and resurgence with Zamrock in 2020’s… How does it feel to be a musician again— you were a teacher and a gemstone minor, correct?
JAGARI: Yeah!
BEAU: Your life is so different now. I mean, you're a rock and roller again! You're going around and performing shows all over the world. How has that whole switch been for you?
JAGARI: Because I'm a believer in God, the creator, I take it that he has given me a chance– He has resurrected my career.
I'm happy making music and sharing it with the world rather than going to the pit of the earth to look for gemstones. It's not easy, but I'd lost hope somehow. Looking at my age, I thought probably, “oh, time is over for me. I can't go back on stage”, things like that. So I thought maybe I should go into gemstone mining so that if I strike big, I can use the money to buy my dreams of owning a school of music and international standard recording studio and things like that ... .Where I could have an opportunity to impact or share with the younger generation. That was what was in my mind. But then Egon of Now Again Records reissued the music from the 70s, Zamrock, and then Gio Arlotta from Italy also did the documentary. You've seen it?
BEAU: Yeah of course!
JAGARI: Yeah. So the combination of the two arose. It aroused the interest for people to say, what's this kind of music? Where was this kind of music? You know, when rock and roll and things were at the peak in the 60s and 70s
So that has helped for people to become curious. And then I enjoy traveling, this tour. I tour with great musicians and very, very wonderful audiences. Wherever we've played, people have appreciated what we've played and contributed. It encourages me a lot.
WITCH by Izzie Austin
BEAU: Absolutely– there’s nothing better than the wonderful feeling of a really appreciative audience. For me, I discovered WITCH because I listen to a lot of psychedelic rock that sounds like the 60s/70s. And then I listen to a lot of stuff like Fela Kuti, and other afrobeat– so naturally, my streaming service algorithm said “look no further” brought WITCH my way as a suggestion– my friends were already listening to it, too.
JAGARI: Yes, we also got influenced by a band called Osibisa. Osibisa was a West African band living in London or something like that. And they combined some rock with the high life of West Africa, and the patterns were close to what we were doing... If you listen to Lukombo Vibes, we were trying to combine some African stuff with European rock and things. And that we were experimenting with those things. So this is, you see these similarities. The influences were the same. Yeah.
From Grand Funk Rail Road, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, Rolling Stones, Santana…..the only thing is we didn't have access to see what these guys were doing in terms of videos, in terms of television clips. We didn't have those. The only magazine we had was Melody maker, and maybe on radio and jukeboxes. And we were under a federation as a country.
We were under a federation of three countries. Zambia today, used to be Northern Rhodesia, Zimbabwe used to be Southern Rhodesia, and Malawi was Nyasaland. The three were under the same federation of Britain. So they imposed culture on us. We started driving on the left. We started having tea at four o'clock in the afternoon– those that could afford it. And we had only one radio station amongst the three countries.….They used to have chats in the night. From midnight to about zero four things like that. And I would sleep with a small radio near me. Little did I know that I was being hooked, too... And we also had the influence from South African bands and groups. One of those songs I listened to in the late fifties and sixties is still playing towards Christmas and New Year– “Tell your mother happy New Year”. Much later, I came to like groups like Juluka, Savuka and things from South Africa and even Zimbabwe– we have some similarities in terms of culture and things. So they were also part of the influence.
BEAU: Excellent. So, I was lucky enough to catch you perform at Desert Daze in 2022– the “surprise set.” Do you remember? That set…with the mountains and the lake in the background…it was pure magic.
JAGARI: Yeah, yeah, yeah!!! So you were there man?!
BEAU: I was there, yeah! The show was incredible. The presence, positivity, and cheer that you bring on stage is so infectious to every single person who's in the audience. Everybody feels that. There was a lot of great sets from many amazing artists that weekend– but that was one set that really stood out to me because the performance was amazing… and the vibes were unmatched!
JAGARI: Thank you so much man!
BEAU: Yeah, it was great. Yeah, me and my friend stormed all the way to the left around the stage and we're like, alright, “we're going to go to the front row, centerstage!”. For a second, I had a speaker right in my face.
(Jagari laughs)
BEAU: But I had earplugs in so I was all good for just that moment. But then we got to the center stage with our arms over the stage. I was in the front row. I mean, we were right there with you man!
JAGARI: Oh, that's good! Next time we meet, you should remind me, so that you can join me man…. even just…playing the cowbell ! (laughs)
BEAU: Yeah! I see WITCH is coming to New York in September so I'll see you there.
JAGARI: Please! Please, you are most welcome. Let me know if you're coming with somebody. Maybe I can just put you on the guest list and we can chat.
BEAU: Yes, that would be wonderful. Okay, so I have to ask you one thing about the show. At Desert Daze , during the set, you would walk to the edge of the stage and then you would sit and think for a second…. and then you'd go, “Ah! I remember”, and then you'd walk somewhere else. Then, you'd change one of your shoes to a completely different color shoe onstage– mismatched. Do you remember doing that? You were messing with the audience…I think? (laughs)
JAGARI: (laughs) …You have a good memory man! So you know…..we are not only sharing music. This is entertainment….. Also, we are sharing the warmth. No, we used to say we intend to cause havoc, but now we can also “intend to cause harmony!” You can intend to cause happiness.
BEAU: Just like the last song on SOGOLO … “we intend to cause harmony”!
JAGARI: Yeah!
(everyone laughs)
BEAU: Thanks so much Jagari, see you soon let’s hang!
JAGARI: Thank you! You are most welcome! Drop me a line man!
SOGOLO is out NOW.
WITCH will be playing in Brooklyn, NYC at Elsewhere, on September 19th
..and you can get your tickets here.
You can watch their amazing 25 minute, Live on KEXP performance here.
You watch the music video for “Kamusale ” here.
You can watch a 14 minute documentary on their 2023 comeback album Zango here.
You can purchase SOGOLO on bandcamp here
You can also catch WITCH on tour in a city near you here.